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WEBVTT1 00:03:29.700 → 00:03:30.060 Benjamin Earl: hi. 2 00:03:37.980 → 00:03:39.270 Benjamin Earl: yeah good time. 300:03:39.720 → 00:03:41.760 Benjamin Earl: yeah no, I get the right trade. 400:03:43.440 → 00:03:47.190 Kristen Mallia: amazing I was trying to log into my. 500:03:48.780 → 00:03:53.010 Kristen Mallia: zoom because I realized like I couldn’t recall. 600:03:56.070 → 00:04:08.580 Kristen Mallia: I just want to double check my my recordings I am teaching right now so recordings have been part of my current reality and I was like. 700:04:12.240 → 00:04:12.600 Benjamin Earl: Even. 800:04:13.230 → 00:04:19.230 Kristen Mallia: So how, how are you I feel like we met for the first time at the last meeting, I think. 900:04:19.410 → 00:04:20.220 yeah. 1000:04:21.780 → 00:04:26.220 Kristen Mallia: And yeah like what’s, what do you, what do you. 1100:04:26.610 → 00:04:27.300 Kristen Mallia: eat you.1200:04:28.920 → 00:04:32.310 Benjamin Earl: whoa I just got back, I mean for an example of what i’m doing.1300:04:33.480 → 00:04:37.740 Benjamin Earl: I just got back from a day at the Royal Academy of art here in The Hague. 1400:04:38.760 → 00:04:42.210 Benjamin Earl: Where we’re setting up a student run radio show station sorry.1500:04:43.680 → 00:04:51.570 Benjamin Earl: And at the moment, actually, a lot of my work is i’m doing radio stuff like I look around the studio and I see like there’s a mixer there there’s some speakers over there. 1600:04:52.080 → 00:04:59.460 Benjamin Earl: And Nice, which is really fun, but it’s also quite chaotic and lots of organization which have not particularly good at.1700:05:00.090 → 00:05:13.350 Benjamin Earl: All it’s the part that I don’t really enjoy so much there it’s it’s also more about I think I enjoyed the actual making with Radio more than the organizing but then to organize to make the radio, you need to organize their it’s just part of the job like us. 1800:05:13.950 → 00:05:14.580 Benjamin Earl: yeah yeah.1900:05:15.030 → 00:05:33.450 Kristen Mallia: it’s good that’s cool that’s really interesting actually so I let me pull up I think there’s like um I think i’m actually supposed to start this with a specific question right, and I can feel already to derail into like more questions, please. 2000:05:34.470 → 00:05:37.170 Kristen Mallia: Just like formally start with the question and then. 2100:05:37.170 → 00:05:37.740 Benjamin Earl: Okay. 2200:05:38.430 → 00:05:41.070 Kristen Mallia: Have you already done your interview with your person. 2300:05:41.550 → 00:05:47.040 Benjamin Earl: yeah yeah I did it with Christopher not last week, the week or I think. 2400:05:47.370 → 00:05:48.000 Kristen Mallia: Oh cool. 2500:05:48.120 → 00:06:03.570 Kristen Mallia: Nice um so yeah I like I did mine was molly and there was a pretty organized structure and actually I was saying it sounded like gosh I have like this whole experience for like molly’s interview and i’m not doing that i’m. 2600:06:04.860 → 00:06:14.430 Kristen Mallia: Like chip away at like maybe some questions come up mostly based on me pulling up your website and just see what I thought was pretty interesting. 2700:06:15.690 → 00:06:19.680 Kristen Mallia: But just I guess to get started um. 2800:06:21.120 → 00:06:22.200 Kristen Mallia: What. 2900:06:23.220 → 00:06:27.510 Kristen Mallia: Oh God where’s that line what, what do you think about when you hear the word align. 3000:06:27.630 → 00:06:27.960 huh. 3100:06:29.010 → 00:06:36.330 Benjamin Earl: yeah I was trying to think about this, but I find it really difficult because I think about it, and many it’s like it’s one of these words that’s a little bit. 3200:06:36.930 → 00:06:50.790 Benjamin Earl: kind of like if you were to ask to describe it, I can was is that I mean drawing it as easy, and I think that’s where I where my mind goes instantly to like because i’m trained as a graphic designer so my mind goes to indesign and to the line. 3300:06:52.260 → 00:06:53.790 Benjamin Earl: which I think is probably quite common. 3400:06:54.270 → 00:07:00.450 Benjamin Earl: response, but then it got me thinking a little bit about the idea of being a tool. 3500:07:01.950 → 00:07:07.980 Benjamin Earl: And the idea of aligning in other circumstances so outside of like a desktop publishing. 3 600:07:09.240 → 00:07:11.760 Benjamin Earl: world, but more about aligning in terms of.3700:07:13.020 → 00:07:23.430 Benjamin Earl: narratives or in terms of lives or in terms of like goals like thinking about aligning as a tool as it as it is in adobe software. 3800:07:24.960 → 00:07:35.760 Benjamin Earl: Thinking like how could that be then used as a tool, how could they how could it aligning what is aligning look like when it becomes a tool in outside of the outside of that world. 3900:07:37.650 → 00:07:45.990 Benjamin Earl: And so, for me it kind of became about what a little bit about what we’re doing now essentially is like having a conversation, or like.4000:07:46.950 → 00:07:58.110 Benjamin Earl: An understanding each other, a little bit better for a dialogue and it maybe isn’t necessarily about always talking, it could also be about an image that. 4100:07:58.830 → 00:08:09.390 Benjamin Earl: makes someone realized something or can can align two different things together, but I guess yeah I was, I was, I was trying to think about it, almost as like a verb. 4200:08:10.830 → 00:08:22.680 Benjamin Earl: And I think that’s a quite like it thinking of it as a verb I mean it is a verb but like outside of yeah that’s one of the screens, but I didn’t really find it really difficult. 4300:08:24.180 → 00:08:40.980 Kristen Mallia: I don’t understand when I went into my interview I realized that I wasn’t prepared and like I got there molly like her, and I have been friends for a while, but I was like Oh, I was like so focused on like making my like afternoon cup of coffee, so I was like. 4400:08:43.170 → 00:08:55.800 Kristen Mallia: there’s a question like was there anything else, like, I feel so unprepared and initially when it was like like actually like formal questions so it actually turned into a really lovely and inspire conversation. 4500:08:55.800 → 00:08:58.170 Kristen Mallia: But yeah I was like I don’t like. 4600:08:58.740 → 00:08:59.910 what’s the right answer here. 4700:09:01.230 → 00:09:07.230 Benjamin Earl: I mean there’s no right answer, I guess, like what is like the the clever answer or something like that the unique concept as. 4800:09:08.070 → 00:09:17.430 Benjamin Earl: I was trying to think about, but I haven’t been to any concert at this question yeah now it and it’s interesting actually to hear you’re just thinking, like the way you’re talking about tools and. 4900:09:18.330 → 00:09:20.220 Kristen Mallia: Just action.5000:09:21.420 → 00:09:27.780 Kristen Mallia: Interestingly, my brain did not go it to end like a design direction.5100:09:27.810 → 00:09:31.710 Kristen Mallia: per se it went in the direction of like like I kept thinking of the word harmony. 5200:09:33.000 → 00:09:36.090 Kristen Mallia: Which leads me sort of. 5300:09:37.890 → 00:09:41.310 Kristen Mallia: Like let me pull up your I want to pull up your website again again like I.5400:09:41.310 → 00:09:43.050 Kristen Mallia: said a bunch of.5500:09:44.340 → 00:09:45.420 Kristen Mallia: words. 5600:09:46.650 → 00:09:49.170 Kristen Mallia: That just struck me as.5700:09:49.800 → 00:10:01.500 Kristen Mallia: A launch and especially hearing you talk about just like action i’m here that has me thinking about how active so much of the languages. 5800:10:01.530 → 00:10:03.810 Kristen Mallia: In Asia describe your work.5900:10:06.090 → 00:10:08.640 Kristen Mallia: And I yeah I thought it is that interesting.6000:10:08.700 → 00:10:10.800 Benjamin Earl: yeah yeah it’s like how many remember well I write on my Web. 6100:10:12.540 → 00:10:17.010 Benjamin Earl: sites such a long time since I updated it yeah well we’ve got so. 6200:10:17.220 → 00:10:23.790 Kristen Mallia: I mean you’ve got language, like the rendering and simulation of physical environments. 6300:10:25.290 → 00:10:26.070 Kristen Mallia: I think.6400:10:27.450 → 00:10:31.380 Kristen Mallia: entangled revealing entangled narratives complex. 6500:10:31.440 → 00:10:32.430 power struggle.6600:10:34.110 → 00:10:53.070 Kristen Mallia: I guess i’m I guess i’m just kind of interested in these in these spaces and obviously you just said it’s been a minute, since you updated your website, maybe Those sort of that language has changed a bit for you um but can you just talk about some of that language.6700:10:53.130 → 00:10:57.690Benjamin Earl: yeah sure I mean, can I ask which project is specifically that’s that that’s coming from.6800:10:58.380 → 00:11:05.160Kristen Mallia: um this actually some of that language is from your like the sort of intro cell.6900:11:05.580 → 00:11:06.210 Kristen Mallia: With that just.7000:11:06.750 → 00:11:08.100Benjamin Earl: like an introduction to myself.7100:11:08.700 → 00:11:09.570 Benjamin Earl: yeah okay.7200:11:10.350 → 00:11:10.830 yeah.7300:11:12.030 → 00:11:19.320 Benjamin Earl: I guess what I mean by things like simulations and renderings is that i’m actually kind of interested in. 7400:11:21.360 → 00:11:30.540 Benjamin Earl: The way the real world is translated into a digital space or into maybe not into it even into a space, but into. 7500:11:31.560 → 00:11:36.090 Benjamin Earl: numbers and figures into maps into things that aren’t essentially. 7600:11:37.800 → 00:11:47.310 Benjamin Earl: At the natural space and because it’s such like a difficult difficult thing to grasp, in the first place, and whether something is natural or not is also.7700:11:48.840 → 00:11:51.510 Benjamin Earl: Another question on top of that, a layer On top of that. 7800:11:52.680 → 00:11:53.580 Benjamin Earl: So, like it’s. 7900:11:55.230 → 00:11:59.130 Benjamin Earl: it’s I guess it’s about that, I guess, I use that language. 8000:12:00.840 → 00:12:07.950 Benjamin Earl: In a way, also in a sense, to align myself with a certain kind of our world that’s in the Netherlands as well. 8100:12:09.900 → 00:12:29.760 Benjamin Earl: or not world essentially but, like the kind of cultural sphere that i’m in Netherlands so that language comes from a certain world sense and it and I think also that language, then we’ll make things about my work or like i’ll think through my work in a certain way. 8200:12:31.950 → 00:12:34.200 Benjamin Earl: So, in that sense.8300:12:35.640 → 00:12:51.870 Benjamin Earl: yeah I guess I think of the language I always I usually write the descriptions of my walk after i’ve done them as like a way, like to sit back and reflect about it, and I think it’s difficult when you’re writing something about yourself because you’re still in the mode of like. 8400:12:53.040 → 00:13:05.130 Benjamin Earl: Becoming or like you’re still like working through who you are and it says like constantly over and over again, so I never feel like I find the right ways to describe what I do, or what I am doing, and I mean these. 8500:13:06.630 → 00:13:15.120 Benjamin Earl: Well, actually it’s quite funny because the things you’re saying I probably wrote them about maybe two years ago and for about the last year they haven’t been. 8600:13:15.690 → 00:13:32.970 Benjamin Earl: Correct or like a good way to describe what i’ve been doing, but now that’s changing back into its kind of going back into looking at landscapes and and how like, for example, looking at Disneyland environment and how the Matterhorn bobsleds is a is a carbon. 8700:13:33.390 → 00:13:35.040 Benjamin Earl: carbon copy, but a very. 8800:13:35.070 → 00:13:37.020 Benjamin Earl: Realistic copy of the matter on mountain. 8900:13:37.020 → 00:13:40.140 Benjamin Earl: And, and looking at how Disney use that structure and. 9000:13:42.420 → 00:13:45.720  

re: the rendering and
simulation of physical environments


My virtual interview with Benjamin Earl on June 29, 2021 coincided with a family conversation about a destination wedding that took place in the summer of 1980. Ben’s work at that time was centering on the Matterhorn, the beloved natural monument that punctuates the Alps that straddle Switzerland and Italy. Curiously, my Mother’s comical tale of train-hopping while 5 months pregnant led her straight up the Alps. This alignment was one of many. As I dipped into different aspects of my studio practice with Ben’s “environmental renderings” in mind, concepts seemed to overlap in myriad unexpected directions. “tran•script” began as a digital process space where the flaws of Zoom transcription and glitchy wifi might mirror the lapses in memory recollection and the re-telling of family stories over time. Digital mock-ups made connections tangible, resulting in physical “landscapes” (sculpture) and one “reconstructed memory” (video).

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Benjamin Earl: I mean yeah so it’s kind of it comes back a little bit. 9100:13:47.250 → 00:13:51.570 Benjamin Earl: But yeah it’s kind of difficult I find to write I didn’t maybe you maybe you. 9200:13:53.400 → 00:13:58.710 Benjamin Earl: disagree or agree, but I find it difficult to write about who, I am in terms of practitioners sometimes. 9300:13:59.880 → 00:14:18.720 Kristen Mallia: I think um I think the hard part is there, it feels like there are so many things so many just sort of threads that sometimes it just feels like Okay, how do I really like where’s the overlap and what are the core sort of things that. 9400:14:18.720 → 00:14:19.470 Benjamin Earl: Everything will. 9500:14:19.770 → 00:14:22.800 Kristen Mallia: hold off built off of um. 9600:14:23.820 → 00:14:43.740 Kristen Mallia: But yeah I I hear you it’s hard, I mean I love writing so I do a lot, but even then, I think, for me, a lot of the clarity comes when i’ve written over time and then I look back and i’m like oh actually all of the themes exist here, I see them when i’m too zoomed in. 9700:14:43.800 → 00:14:45.330 Benjamin Earl: You know yeah yeah. 9800:14:46.440 → 00:14:53.250 Benjamin Earl: I agree, I have a similar thing also when i’ve sometimes been asked to revisit revisit projects. 9900:14:54.390 → 00:15:02.640 Benjamin Earl: And the last time I did it i’d spent about a year between doing something and then being asked to revisit and put it into a different form and then.10000:15:03.450 → 00:15:13.920 Benjamin Earl: When I came back to revisit it, I found it so easy to make something, because I knew what the project was about whereas when I was doing it back then I literally no idea I was just kind of like quite intuitively following this route.10100:15:14.430 → 00:15:14.700 yeah.10200:15:15.840 → 00:15:17.940 Kristen Mallia: yeah I totally I totally hear. 10300:15:19.890 → 00:15:27.360 Kristen Mallia: You had, I want to just revisit because there was like this moment where you glitch before, when you were starting to talk about the matter Horn.10400:15:27.660 → 00:15:36.870 Kristen Mallia: And there was just a sentence in there, that you were talking about something about what it’s built off of or something that you were referencing and I just want to make sure I know what you’re saying. 10500:15:37.350 → 00:15:45.600 Benjamin Earl: Yes, Sir i’m doing a project to the moment where i’m looking specifically at Walt disney’s roller coasters for an exhibition that’s going to happen here in Rotterdam. 10600:15:46.590 → 00:15:55.980 Benjamin Earl: And my main of Walt disney’s roller coasters of mountains and the main one of the most well known, being the Matterhorn bobsleds I think anyway. 10700:15:57.780 → 00:16:00.060 Benjamin Earl: And i’m looking at how.10800:16:01.170 → 00:16:13.110 Benjamin Earl: i’m looking at that relationship between essentially brother curses which are entertainment and the natural landscape, which is the natural landscape, or like these, specifically mountains these giant structures of like. 10900:16:14.160 → 00:16:23.070Benjamin Earl: I don’t know that kind of like the metaphor of like static they don’t they don’t move there and change they like these giants that that kind of tower over everything. 11000:16:23.580 → 00:16:32.130 Benjamin Earl: And how they use in relation to yeah this this machine which is essentially built to intimidate people and they get paid for the kids. 11100:16:34.080 → 00:16:41.220 Benjamin Earl: So yeah that’s that’s where that project comes from and it’s and i’m looking i’m looking specifically at the landscapes that. 11200:16:41.880 → 00:16:54.030 Benjamin Earl: Have the matter Horn and looking at how they built the matter Horn and the history of building roller coasters which also is embedded in like rebuilding mountains so like the first. 11300:16:54.600 → 00:17:08.580 Benjamin Earl: roller coaster kind of roller coaster to be built was called a Russian mountain and it was like a big just ice slope someone put on some some stilts essentially and people would vote right down in there, but this isn’t like the 17th century. 11400:17:09.960 → 00:17:15.690 Benjamin Earl: So it goes way way back and then the history of roller coasters is like littered with these references to mountains so. 11500:17:16.140 → 00:17:25.500 Benjamin Earl: The mountain that they have in Disneyland in California is like this, I mean it’s not the latest iteration of it but there’s yeah it’s, just like the. 11600:17:26.070 → 00:17:38.220 Benjamin Earl: The use of landscape as entertainment, or like as something that could just pick kind of like taken and picked up and moved over here and then rebuilt yeah it’s a. 11700:17:39.450 → 00:17:43.590 Benjamin Earl: it’s an interesting project and still kind of working for it that’s why maybe i’m struggling to talk about it is. 11800:17:46.170 → 00:17:53.220 Kristen Mallia: Everything you’re saying sounds so interesting and I love what’s interesting, especially to me is that a lot of. 11900:17:53.640 → 00:18:06.690 Kristen Mallia: I think, for me, without again like I don’t i’m not super familiar with your work yet um what’s interesting is that my mind immediately goes to a very plastic sort of reality when you’re talking. 12000:18:06.690 → 00:18:14.490 Kristen Mallia: About like all of like basically these these very real things and then like this sort of created landscape. 12100:18:14.760 → 00:18:16.440 Kristen Mallia: So when I think about. 12200:18:16.680 → 00:18:24.210 Kristen Mallia: You know, a roller coaster I mean it’s so it’s it’s mental it’s a giant and like scary structure but. 12300:18:24.990 → 00:18:43.230 Kristen Mallia: Everything about that world is so artificial and so conjures this very plastic carnival sort of thing, in my mind and thinking about all that research fiction history that’s just like a really nice sort of relationship in my. 12400:18:43.290 → 00:18:43.920 In my brain. 12500:18:44.970 → 00:18:45.480 Kristen Mallia: With what. 12600:18:46.740 → 00:18:50.670 Kristen Mallia: i’m I wonder what do you like roller coasters. 12700:18:50.940 → 00:18:59.220 Benjamin Earl: I really like roller coasters we actually recently went to a theme park and got to write on them after like things have opened back up again here, so it was it was a lot of fun. 12800:19:01.860 → 00:19:07.260 Benjamin Earl: I really I feel like that’s like a that people either love them or hate them they can’t be a middle. 12900:19:07.530 → 00:19:08.220 Benjamin Earl: ground. 13000:19:08.730 → 00:19:22.440 Kristen Mallia: And when it comes to read coasters I yeah i’m like a baby I am it was only like maybe like 10 years ago at this point, probably when I would go to like this local. 13100:19:23.430 → 00:19:35.700 Kristen Mallia: Like amusement park or whatever, and I got up the well I feel like my friends kind of tricked me into it, but I started going on the roller coasters and learning that if I screamed it would allow me to breathe. 13200:19:35.730 → 00:19:38.100 Kristen Mallia: Because I was that person when it brief. 13300:19:39.270 → 00:19:42.690 Kristen Mallia: And then I feel like I started to like maybe enjoy it. 13400:19:42.930 → 00:19:46.680 Kristen Mallia: And then I realized that the roller coasters I was going on, like. 13500:19:47.430 → 00:19:51.870 Kristen Mallia: I could never survive survive like a like a six flags or something. 13600:19:51.870 → 00:19:54.120 Benjamin Earl: Well yeah that’s a different level. 13700:19:54.240 → 00:19:58.350 Kristen Mallia: yeah totally i’m like the kid on like the flat dragon like. 13800:20:03.060 → 00:20:09.120 Benjamin Earl: friend who I went to the theme park with that similar and she will begin screaming before the roller coaster is even dropped. 13900:20:09.570 → 00:20:24.300 Benjamin Earl: And I did a little while we’re me my friend did load of recording sound recordings on the roller coaster to us in the installation is going to come up and her scream is going to feature so prominently it’s just insane screen that i’ve never had come out of her mouth for. 14000:20:25.170 → 00:20:29.670 Benjamin Earl: God she gets it she gets through my screaming sorry I can understand that.14100:20:30.090 → 00:20:32.880 Kristen Mallia: that’s awesome um.14200:20:34.350 → 00:20:36.180 Kristen Mallia: So I I wonder. 14300:20:37.410 → 00:20:40.560 Kristen Mallia: A little while ago, you were describing. 14400:20:42.000 → 00:20:53.160 Kristen Mallia: The way you know, essentially, that the description that I some of the keywords in your description applied, two years ago and then essentially for the past two years, they did not. 14500:20:53.160 → 00:21:03.240 Kristen Mallia: Another to be reflective of your work i’m wondering what sort of language you might use to describe the work you are doing in that in between. 14600:21:03.420 → 00:21:04.020 When it was. 14700:21:05.730 → 00:21:06.420 Benjamin Earl: interesting. 14800:21:06.600 → 00:21:07.470 um. 14900:21:09.180 → 00:21:10.020 Benjamin Earl: I would. 15000:21:11.400 → 00:21:21.420 Benjamin Earl: I would, I would explain my situation at that time, which was that I was living in in Rotterdam and a kind of quiet experiment to. 15100:21:22.740 → 00:21:23.850 Benjamin Earl: Co housing. 15200:21:25.560 → 00:21:35.970 Benjamin Earl: project in here in Boston where you would the inhabitants would be given very cheap rent if they would be able to give something back to the Community in the street that we lived on. 15300:21:36.690 → 00:21:42.000 Benjamin Earl: So there’s about 52 different apartments and about think about 60 or 70 residents. 15400:21:42.960 → 00:21:51.210 Benjamin Earl: They would live there and the whole bottom floor be taken up by different initiatives so that’d be a CAFE that would be run by the local. 15500:21:52.200 → 00:22:09.030 Benjamin Earl: bakery and then there’d be a daycare Center that be I run I with some friends run a radio station that was an art read his residency there was a kind of living room space a communal living room space that everyone took care of and a few other like in a little things that popped up. 15600:22:10.560 → 00:22:11.970 Benjamin Earl: And I live there between. 15700:22:13.710 → 00:22:14.070 Benjamin Earl: The end of. 15800:22:15.210 → 00:22:24.930 Benjamin Earl: kind of mid 2019 till until very recently, and a lot of my work then was actually focused on doing stuff in this place.15900:22:25.530 → 00:22:37.500Benjamin Earl: Where there were 70 people living and we had very, very cheap rent and it was also the time that the current 19 kind of took hold so lots of jobs that were planned to happen in. 16000:22:38.040 → 00:22:58.500 Benjamin Earl: In public spaces never happened so therefore living cheaply was a necessity, but it also allowed us to kind of like focus in like us, I say me and my my housemates of time left to us focus entirely on our local situation and it became much more about working with people and and. 16100:23:00.360 → 00:23:06.390 Benjamin Earl: Not like recognizing things that we could do as designers or artist or. 16200:23:09.300 → 00:23:13.380 Benjamin Earl: Like sound engineer, people who are we, the three of us were. 16300:23:14.970 → 00:23:18.840 Benjamin Earl: How the we could give back to the Community that we were involved with. 16400:23:20.280 → 00:23:21.780 Benjamin Earl: So that’s where. 16500:23:23.460 → 00:23:26.100 Benjamin Earl: There was a radio, the first radio station that we set up. 16600:23:28.230 → 00:23:35.820 Benjamin Earl: was in this Community, it was a small radio station called good times bad times, which is still running today. 16700:23:36.780 → 00:23:38.250 Benjamin Earl: But in a different place in. 16800:23:38.490 → 00:23:39.840 slightly different size. 16900:23:41.760 → 00:23:42.210 Benjamin Earl: But. 17000:23:44.490 → 00:23:54.690 Benjamin Earl: yeah it was all about basically giving people the the airtime on radio to experiment to do there to do

their own thing to. 17100:23:55.710 → 00:24:01.290 Benjamin Earl: We told them how to use the equipment and then they could come up with their own shows, they could play their music, they could broadcast. 17200:24:02.100 → 00:24:15.810 Benjamin Earl: Their poems they could talk with their friends, they could talk about the different movements that they’re interested in, or the different trends they’re interested in whatever we had like 12 year old boys talking about gaming but at the same time, we had. 17300:24:17.010 → 00:24:26.880 Benjamin Earl: Artists doing hangover shares and we had interviews with the different kind of people doing residence residencies of the art resident place. 17400:24:28.650 → 00:24:39.000 Benjamin Earl: And it became kind of like a little hub of activity and my activities at that point, I just graduated when I moved here from my masters, so I kind of like. 17500:24:41.400 → 00:24:50.190 Benjamin Earl: I had finished, a lot of work, and I was kind of like okay i’m done with that now let’s move on to this, which is kind of where maybe that that break in in language happens. 17600:24:50.970 → 00:25:02.340 Benjamin Earl: But then it really became about and I focusing so much on a local on a on the locale around you and the Community around you and it became about like baking bread for people became about. 17700:25:03.180 → 00:25:08.820 Benjamin Earl: Writing stories for the local for their like in the newspaper that we were that was in the street and. 17800:25:10.860 → 00:25:22.860 Benjamin Earl: yeah became about making little clubs to go swimming and then the radio became essentially a little club as well and, and it really became yeah quite wholesome in a way. 17900:25:25.020 → 00:25:37.080 Benjamin Earl: And I really enjoyed that and I really I really because my work before then, I found found was maybe a little bit distant and or like looking at subjects, apart from me and then. 18000:25:39.600 → 00:25:45.210 Benjamin Earl: And like trying to analyze them and tell a story about them, and now it was really about like being in it and being like. 18100:25:47.580 → 00:25:51.330 Benjamin Earl: Part of the story that was being told, and I felt like. 18200:25:52.860 → 00:26:08.160 Benjamin Earl: Whilst I still miss this kind of research part that I really enjoyed during my master’s this idea, like Community building and involving people in working with people in a collaborative aspect is going to be something that I take forward from now on, into whatever projects, I do. 18300:26:09.930 → 00:26:21.000 Benjamin Earl: And it could be about the actual like collaboration of building something together with people or it could be about making tools such as a radio station that people can use to build communities themselves. 18400:26:23.430 → 00:26:24.510 Benjamin Earl: So. 18500:26:26.160 → 00:26:41.970 Benjamin Earl: So it became yeah I guess it became more about it was less focused on a certain topic, which was kind of like that idea of looking at landscapes and rendered landscapes and simulated spaces and and more about like I don’t know I don’t want to say real life, but.18600:26:44.250 → 00:26:50.700 Benjamin Earl: I don’t know the stuff that’s around you more the things that you can really touch and taste and feel.18700:26:51.900 → 00:26:59.430Benjamin Earl: The everyday life, I guess it became about understanding that more and and playing with it in a sense. 18800:27:01.350 → 00:27:09.150 Benjamin Earl: But of course now things are opening back up as well, a little bit and things become a little bit harder harder to make space for when it’s. 18900:27:11.010 → 00:27:13.860 Benjamin Earl: Where yeah when this now so much more stuff to do. 19000:27:15.570 → 00:27:21.990 Benjamin Earl: So it’s it’s trying to hold on to that as well we kind of like learned from lockdown feeling. 19100:27:22.440 → 00:27:30.420 Kristen Mallia: yeah I mean well that just sounds like it was a special like it just sounds like the radio thing was a really special thing. 19200:27:30.960 → 00:27:37.560 Kristen Mallia: yeah um it’s also interesting to hear you talk about like bringing up tools again. 19300:27:38.100 → 00:27:38.610 Kristen Mallia: and 19400:27:38.880 → 00:27:41.460 Kristen Mallia: You know, thinking about that as a tool that’s. 19500:27:42.600 → 00:27:49.350  Kristen Mallia: You know, a way of connecting people are bringing people together but it’s also interesting to this idea of like 19600:27:50.700 → 00:27:58.110Kristen Mallia: I feel like you’re talking about it as if it was a more like real space or more just authentic.19700:27:59.160 → 00:28:01.680 Kristen Mallia: But it’s still some sort of like simulation. 19800:28:03.420 → 00:28:09.990 Kristen Mallia: extracted reality and it’s a performance and i’m picturing you know, like. 19900:28:10.020 → 00:28:14.430 Kristen Mallia: Just like even hearing myself on zoom i’m like oh my God like. 20000:28:15.000 → 00:28:21.690 Kristen Mallia: Like like there’s there’s still all of these layers and filters and magnification that. 20100:28:22.050 → 00:28:22.710 Benjamin Earl: Of course. 20200:28:22.830 → 00:28:26.400 Kristen Mallia: Making it into a different place so that’s really. 20300:28:27.660 → 00:28:28.800 Kristen Mallia: Just interesting. 20400:28:29.220 → 00:28:36.960 Benjamin Earl: yeah yeah, I think, also the like when I think about the radio as well, I had never really worked with audio before I always focused on. 20500:28:37.020 → 00:28:46.350 Benjamin Earl: Making videos and of course there’s audio in videos but not to the same kind of level of focus that you have when you’re doing percent only audio. 20600:28:46.800 → 00:28:59.040 Benjamin Earl: But it was quite interesting to have to be talking over the radio and have friends around us, here we can see at the time, because of the the restrictions that. 20700:29:00.450 → 00:29:05.160 Benjamin Earl: found comfort listening to voices that they know, even if the presence, when wasn’t there. 20800:29:07.050 → 00:29:11.070 Benjamin Earl: And, and it was nicer somehow than like. 20900:29:12.150 → 00:29:24.600 Benjamin Earl: The zoom meetings that we’re having all the video calls that we’re having because I know there wasn’t this like because right now there’s like this, even though with talk like we can see each other it’s still like we’re looking at a screen essentially. 21000:29:25.650 → 00:29:26.070 Benjamin Earl: And it’s. 21100:29:26.130 → 00:29:27.300 Benjamin Earl: Still, like a kind of like. 21200:29:28.320 → 00:29:38.730 Benjamin Earl: Not as a simulated version of ourselves that we’re seeing, whereas with the radio you’re just hearing a voice and it’s the same voice, you would be hearing. 21300:29:39.150 → 00:29:52.290 Benjamin Earl: If that person was like speaking into your ear or like standing next to you and talking, of course, maybe there’s there’s different ways that it’s goes for different filters and of course compression and stuff like that, but effectively it’s quite similar. 21400:29:53.340 → 00:29:58.320 Benjamin Earl: So then, like like thinking about how that absence of. 21500:30:00.420 → 00:30:02.250 Benjamin Earl: Like visual presence. 21600:30:02.520 → 00:30:06.780 Benjamin Earl: Is is strengthened by the. 21700:30:08.250 → 00:30:20.550 Benjamin Earl: Like the presence of an audio or like the last night and I don’t really know how to describe it it’s quite it’s quite like an aerial thing it’s quite difficult to get hold of I guess with words but yeah. 21800:30:20.850 → 00:30:26.040 Kristen Mallia: Well, I think i’m not, I think that’s really interesting though, especially because when I think of. 21900:30:28.560 → 00:30:30.390 Kristen Mallia: When I think of radio and I think of. 22000:30:30.390 → 00:30:46.830 Kristen Mallia: Any just sort of audio dialogue, I feel like it has like it’s automatically, at least for me as soon as soon as like it’s in this sort of bubble of nostalgia somehow there’s a different sort of charm to it. 22100:30:47.160 → 00:30:59.520 Kristen Mallia: There something about it, that will forever feel a little more old fashioned to me and there’s just certain sounds that when you hear it on the radio you, you know you go somewhere. 22200:30:59.940 → 00:31:00.600 Benjamin Earl: and 22300:31:00.930 → 00:31:05.040 Kristen Mallia: I think there’s something just really interesting about that. 22400:31:05.850 → 00:31:15.930 Benjamin Earl: yeah yeah we had a we had someone come over to a mix on the radio recently, and the first like five or 10 minutes of a mix were just like a recording that she had done. 22500:31:16.320 → 00:31:29.280 Benjamin Earl: Was she was traveling back for the like the outer reaches of Canada with her with her family and just listened like just switching over the different stations on the radio and it’s such like a vibe it’s such a feeling of like. 22600:31:29.790 → 00:31:37.140 Benjamin Earl: Just like leaning back in the car listening to these different voices then turn to the vehicle it’s really nice it’s really fun to listen to. 22700:31:37.560 → 00:31:48.030 Kristen Mallia: Well there’s something so analog about all of it, maybe that’s a like even for radio like i’m like oh it’s so it’s kind of like where TV will eventually be like I don’t have. 22800:31:48.030 → 00:32:07.740 Kristen Mallia: TV like an apple TV situation and, like I i’m increasingly I don’t really watch much of anything um, but when I when I am it’s like this horrible you can’t just turn something on and have it actually be on, you have to turn it on how many decisions. 22900:32:08.040 → 00:32:08.310 Kristen Mallia: And it’s. 23000:32:08.610 → 00:32:11.670 Kristen Mallia: Like i’m trying to eat lunch and then i’m like a forget this. 23100:32:11.670 → 00:32:11.880 Like. 23200:32:13.170 → 00:32:18.480 Kristen Mallia: nothing’s right, and you know ability to just get sucked into something like. 23300:32:19.410 → 00:32:23.010 Kristen Mallia: you’re listening to the radio or flipping like just turning on the TV. 23400:32:24.780 → 00:32:26.430 Benjamin Earl: No, I understand that completely. 23500:32:27.780 → 00:32:29.370 Benjamin Earl: it’s a different kind of. 23600:32:30.420 → 00:32:36.870 Benjamin Earl: As a different kind of way of taking something in as well, like you’re using you know, using different senses. 23700:32:39.150 → 00:32:45.480 Benjamin Earl: And I it’s the same with poker I feel like that’s why podcast maybe became so popular is that they became this thing that you can. 23800:32:47.040 → 00:32:58.320 Benjamin Earl: You can have a certain type of input that’s coming in, while still being able to do stuff around you, whereas I felt like TV and cinema like I love going to the cinema. 23900:33:00.240 → 00:33:06.690 Benjamin Earl: And I love trying to recreate going to the cinema over the last however many months it didn’t really work but. 24000:33:07.770 → 00:33:11.940 Benjamin Earl: there’s a different kind of presence, I guess that you have with what you’re consuming.24100:33:13.530 → 00:33:20.580Benjamin Earl: And I have this the same thing when I like if i’m having lunch tonight I tried to find a free episode of seinfeld or something on my on my laptop I.24200:33:21.960 → 00:33:23.460 Benjamin Earl: said the same thing so. 24300:33:24.480 → 00:33:27.420 Benjamin Earl: But it’s just an interesting different way. 24400:33:27.660 → 00:33:33.480 Kristen Mallia: Oh no do you i’m just kind of curious if you listen to podcasts I struggle. 24500:33:33.930 → 00:33:41.700 Kristen Mallia: To Linden podcast I feel like I should but I can’t seem to I can’t seem to do it. 24600:33:42.270 → 00:33:54.540 Benjamin Earl: I go through phases, where I like will listen to like five a day, and it will take up about it’ll take about seven hours of me just like listening, but it’s usually


dependent on something that i’m doing at the time. 24700:33:54.960 → 00:34:04.830 Benjamin Earl: And then, for the last like month or so I won’t listen to anything and then i’ll have about four months, well, I have about three months of podcasts to catch up on. 24800:34:06.330 → 00:34:12.540 Benjamin Earl: So then i’ll do my binge again and then i’ll something will happen and i’ll get bored so I guess I go through phases. 24900:34:14.250 → 00:34:24.210 Benjamin Earl: But I do I do like them, although there is something about the fact that they’re edited well, not all of them are edited, I guess, some of them are just like live recordings of conversations, but. 25000:34:25.500 → 00:34:33.840 Benjamin Earl: Most of the time they’re very like cut and chopped and neat and tidy and there’s something nice about the roughness it’s a live conversation, like the arms and the hours.25100:34:34.530 → 00:34:45.480 Benjamin Earl: yeah delays and the kind of miscommunications or a nice moments of like realization that come for just talking with people organically yeah. 25200:34:47.310 → 00:34:56.970 Kristen Mallia: I had one more sort of word that was has been sitting in my brain but we’re at 30 Minutes do you have a second for me to bring that up. 25300:34:57.090 → 00:34:57.960 Benjamin Earl: yeah no it’s fine. 25400:34:59.520 → 00:35:01.320 Benjamin Earl: The end of the day, for me, Sarah it’s not. 25500:35:03.180 → 00:35:04.230 Kristen Mallia: that I have. 25600:35:04.440 → 00:35:07.710 Benjamin Earl: Another it says fine i’m not in any rush to go anywhere. 25700:35:08.310 → 00:35:09.150 um. 25800:35:10.350 → 00:35:13.890 Kristen Mallia: It was i’m trying to see where I found it i’m. 25900:35:16.230 → 00:35:25.530 Kristen Mallia: There i’m i’m not finding it right now, but it was something about I don’t know if it’s what you specifically studied about linear or not. 26000:35:25.560 → 00:35:28.410 Benjamin Earl: nonlinear oh yeah I was wondering. 26100:35:29.610 → 00:35:40.020 Kristen Mallia: I just I feel like I talked about nonlinear narratives a lot of my work and i’m just kind of curious what that means to what that looks like what’s interesting to you. 26200:35:40.950 → 00:35:45.570 Benjamin Earl: yeah um so Then there was the Masters I studied was called nonlinear narrative. 26300:35:46.770 → 00:35:56.580 Benjamin Earl: And the reason that, as far as i’m aware that the The co head of the department, I think they chose it from to know Adam curtis the filmmaker. 26400:35:58.710 → 00:36:16.890 Benjamin Earl: He he’s like a isn’t English filmmaker who makes these documentaries completely out of archive material from the BBC archive and they usually telling some really like complex narrative about like how the world is run and he did this really interesting series that was. 26500:36:17.970 → 00:36:21.600 Benjamin Earl: All about it was called called. 26600:36:22.800 → 00:36:32.250 Benjamin Earl: The age of something I forget now one of his first series he did, but he then left later went on to make films, and it was all about. 26700:36:33.000 → 00:36:52.890 Benjamin Earl: How advertising basically became a thing and it kind of tracks it from like individual people to large corporations to cultural movements to historical events to like economics to policy like it tracking it takes it all around these different places and. 26800:36:54.240 → 00:37:03.240 Benjamin Earl: They took the they they took it from something an interview or something the name came from an interview that he said because he says his films are very nonlinear. 26900:37:04.800 → 00:37:12.720 Benjamin Earl: And it’s because they have they have these very different, they focus on many different things, all at once, so like. 27000:37:13.800 → 00:37:30.330 Benjamin Earl: Maybe they start from this one one moment but they branch out like a and like touch upon all these different subjects that might not come into like the same like spheres, in a normal circumstance, but actually have quite a big impact on one another. 27100:37:32.610 → 00:37:39.060 Benjamin Earl: So, in that sense, is something that we were taught to do very like do we were taught. 27200:37:40.110 → 00:37:47.460 Benjamin Earl: It was a very research based masters and we were taught very to like try to look at everything try to look as many things as possible because. 27300:37:48.930 → 00:37:52.590 Benjamin Earl: You will like different things will bring different things with them. 27400:37:54.570 → 00:38:02.250 Benjamin Earl: And of course it’s great to go out and talk with 70 people about so many different things it’s a harder thing to then translate into something that’s visual and communicative. 27500:38:02.700 → 00:38:13.230 Benjamin Earl: Because of course you’re telling a very complex story and you’re not Adam curtis and you don’t have the BBC archive supporting you and you don’t have three hours of TV to to resent you have a 10 minute film to make. 27600:38:14.850 → 00:38:18.060 Benjamin Earl: And for stupidly I chose to graduate with the topic of time. 27700:38:18.270 → 00:38:20.250 Benjamin Earl: Which is just a very bad idea. 27800:38:22.860 → 00:38:27.990 Benjamin Earl: But interesting nonetheless in terms of the now at the places that took me because. 27900:38:30.300 → 00:38:36.300 Benjamin Earl: Because I spoke to the guy there’s a guy in the Netherlands here is effectively the timekeeper of the Netherlands. 28000:38:37.950 → 00:38:39.390 Benjamin Earl: And he has these four. 28100:38:39.420 → 00:38:41.520 Benjamin Earl: nucular clocks in his office. 28200:38:42.270 → 00:38:57.510 Benjamin Earl: He works in meteorology department or institute in the Netherlands, which is intelligent city nearby and yeah he has these four nucular clocks on each taking away my liver and paste depending on how many. 28300:38:59.190 → 00:39:05.520 Benjamin Earl: How many atoms that something how many nucular fusions are going on one moment I can’t remember exactly now. 28400:39:07.110 → 00:39:12.150 Benjamin Earl: But account calculates the very precisely and then he sends these numbers off to a place in Paris, which then. 28500:39:13.320 → 00:39:20.460 Benjamin Earl: collects all these numbers from all around the world from all these different atomic clocks and then that the place in Paris will then send a measurement back to this guy. 28600:39:21.000 → 00:39:30.000 Benjamin Earl: Who will then adjust the time of the Netherlands, accordingly, whether it should be a couple of micro seconds faster or a couple of micro seconds slower, no real like felt. 28700:39:31.560 → 00:39:41.490 Benjamin Earl: presence know low nothing that we would understand is like a five minute jump or something like that, but just so that everything is in sync so that satellites can move around the world, so that. 28800:39:42.930 → 00:39:53.010 Benjamin Earl: Logistically like ships can be sent around to deliver things that can be like the Internet can function effectively, because it has to work with. 28900:39:53.760 → 00:40:06.060 Benjamin Earl: certain kinds of kinds of timestamps on like emails and stuff like that everything needs to kind of synchronized so that when we talk your computer knows what the time is my computer knows what the time is and it allows that communication to happen. 29000:40:08.070 → 00:40:11.790 Kristen Mallia: Like like that just felt so enormous and things. 29100:40:13.590 → 00:40:25.470 Kristen Mallia: Like why I mean it makes perfect sense, of course, but it also I mean these like, of course, like anything those tiny discrepancies will grow and accumulate over time. 29200:40:26.550 → 00:40:44.520 Kristen Mallia: To think of what that actually means, but when we’re talking about time which I mean obviously in that regard when it’s connected, just so much hardware becomes this very tangible thing but yeah way of like to wrap my mind around it yeah no understand. 29300:40:45.180 → 00:40:54.660 Benjamin Earl: Okay, it says it’s such a it’s such a ridiculously huge topic that it’s difficult to pin it to one point but that’s like last way I like to bring you back to like the fact that. 29400:40:55.200 → 00:41:02.850 Benjamin Earl: we’re talking over like actually when you think about it we’re talking over this really complex network of cables that like go into the sea, or like. 29500:41:03.210 → 00:41:14.910 Benjamin Earl: go up into space or whatever like it’s quite an interesting thing to think about that is this guy in Delft who is like helping us do this and there’s probably a few guys in America, who are also doing the same thing. 29600:41:16.260 → 00:41:19.290 Benjamin Earl: And it’s just yeah it’s just quite an interesting. 29700:41:20.370 → 00:41:21.210 Kristen Mallia: that’s amazing. 29800:41:21.480 → 00:41:29.760 Benjamin Earl: yeah that’s, I guess, an example of what would be like the nonlinear aspect to it, is that, like encompasses so much and then. 29900:41:31.410 → 00:41:36.750 Benjamin Earl: yeah, then the struggle is bringing it back down to a like an understandable human level. 30000:41:37.890 → 00:41:38.850 Benjamin Earl: But. 30100:41:40.380 → 00:41:48.060 Benjamin Earl: yeah people ask me what nonlinear narrative is quite a few a lot, because they see the masters and they’re like home that’s that sounds like a weird thing and then I have to. 30200:41:48.360 → 00:41:57.900 Benjamin Earl: My normal answer is that is the course was a mix between graphic design and computer programming and journalism but effectively like is yeah it’s those kind of projects that it took me on. 30300:41:59.670 → 00:42:00.690 Kristen Mallia: You love that. 30400:42:01.320 → 00:42:11.160 Benjamin Earl: I really loved it, I really, really enjoyed it, I was also the first year that the program ever ran series also and it’s very experimental and kind of like finding its feet phase. 30500:42:12.150 → 00:42:18.930 Benjamin Earl: So there was lots of ups and downs, but we really and they really had a lot of fun and I got to learn so much stuff. 30600:42:20.490 → 00:42:21.540 Kristen Mallia: that’s awesome. 30700:42:21.660 → 00:42:28.650 Kristen Mallia: I mean you know I say this every day so there’s a lot of my classes like there’s just so much to know. 30800:42:30.420 → 00:42:32.760 Kristen Mallia: to know and there’s just no time. 30900:42:34.080 → 00:42:37.080 Kristen Mallia: Yes, it’s there’s just so much. 31000:42:37.290 → 00:42:37.650 yeah. 31100:42:39.570 → 00:42:41.220 Benjamin Earl: i’m selective it’s difficult. 31200:42:41.790 → 00:42:53.970 Kristen Mallia: it’s so um so Is this what you like, are you working on your your stuff full time do you do client work do you have other like more sort of. 31300:42:55.290 → 00:42:59.910 Kristen Mallia: Like mainstays sort of job situation i’m just kind of curious now. 31400:43:00.180 → 00:43:06.930 Benjamin Earl: yeah so now minute again it’s something that fluctuates with every few months but. 31500:43:08.400 → 00:43:11.790 Benjamin Earl: Now, for example, i’m working on this rollercoaster project that’s part of. 31600:43:12.900 → 00:43:23.820 Benjamin Earl: Less than a day or two a week and then i’m running this radio show here, I also just finished the teaching at the black back where I graduated from. 31700:43:25.020 → 00:43:26.970 Benjamin Earl: Just come for sorry. 31800:43:27.270 → 00:43:28.110 Kristen Mallia: What did you teach. 31900:43:29.130 → 00:43:41.100 Benjamin Earl: I was part of a course called the design inquiry group which is this group that is effectively built on trying to discover new research. 32000:43:41.100 → 00:43:55.440 Benjamin Earl: methods so last for the last semester, as an example it wasn’t a new research methods, but trying to broaden graphic designs research methods so last semester, for example, we went on walks and.32100:43:56.040 → 00:44:06.630 Benjamin Earl: We had texts that we would read from several different books and then we’d also invite a expert of someone who’s a psychologist or someone who is.


32200:44:10.140 → 00:44:19.530 Benjamin Earl: Some guy who was really into like about communication and nonverbal communication and communicating not just resigned language but also for like the body language. 32300:44:20.100 → 00:44:28.950 Benjamin Earl: And facial expressions and stuff like that and trying to understand that and we’ll go on these walks and we would talk about things, we would.32400:44:29.580 → 00:44:35.010Benjamin Earl: Talk about what we read talk about we listened to the expert, we would go to these different locations. 32500:44:35.850 → 00:44:47.850 Benjamin Earl: Based on the subject that we were talking about to kind of like understand what these spaces look and feel and sound like and then so that was the first half of this, and so, then the second half of the Semester would be about. 32600:44:49.350 → 00:44:56.760 Benjamin Earl: Communicating that research and those thoughts and those feelings into several different iterations of of. 32700:44:57.750 → 00:45:10.170 Benjamin Earl: Well, like something that can be designed so the first one was the poster and seven series of posters, and the second one, second part, was a radio show, and the third part, was a visual essay that was like something in moving image. 32800:45:12.030 → 00:45:12.660 Benjamin Earl: So.32900:45:13.680 → 00:45:17.910 Benjamin Earl: yeah it’s really nice and we’re going to i’m going to do it again next year for the first semester Lisa. 33000:45:19.470 → 00:45:21.930 Benjamin Earl: yeah it’s interesting it’s a nice course to teach. 33100:45:23.310 → 00:45:39.120 Kristen Mallia: yeah I mean that’s so interesting like the there’s i’m like i’m really number one I was really excited partly because you’re I was partly super excited to talk with you because you I don’t know you. 33200:45:39.330 → 00:45:39.750 Kristen Mallia: yeah. 33300:45:40.200 → 00:45:54.960 Kristen Mallia: So when he goes, but also when you had mentioned like dude your intro last class and some of what you said about your work, I was like ooh like this feels like somebody who’s like totally going to like say things that are super inspiring me and. 33400:45:57.090 → 00:45:59.520 Kristen Mallia: That class sounds so interesting. 33500:46:01.830 → 00:46:08.190 Benjamin Earl: fun, but you also teaching, so I mean what what are you teaching, I mean I don’t know if you have time to get into it, but. 33600:46:08.550 → 00:46:14.490 Kristen Mallia: Oh yeah no I i’m teaching every summer I teach it’s a graphic design elective it’s. 33700:46:15.720 → 00:46:25.680 Kristen Mallia: A yeah it’s a foundational design class i’ve taught it since since Grad school, which was I I graduated with molly so it’s been a couple. 33800:46:25.680 → 00:46:26.070 years.33900:46:27.870 → 00:46:34.110 Kristen Mallia: But yeah I am i’m hoping i’m looking forward to the fall I just got a full time teaching gigs. 34000:46:34.110 → 00:46:35.850 Benjamin Earl: So congrats. 34100:46:35.940 → 00:46:43.590 Kristen Mallia: hey thanks um so technically it starts July 1 um but obviously classes start in the fall i’m. 34200:46:43.590 → 00:46:44.520 Benjamin Earl: Really yeah. 34300:46:45.300 → 00:46:52.170 Kristen Mallia: i’ve got um I have a conceptual type class that i’m really excited to start out and. 34400:46:53.850 → 00:47:03.810 Kristen Mallia: I don’t know we’ll see we’ll we’ll see i’m kind of summer term one ends for us tomorrow and then summer dance to starts next week so. 34500:47:04.380 → 00:47:07.140 Kristen Mallia: Like fall like I need to get going on. 34600:47:08.190 → 00:47:11.490 Kristen Mallia: You gave but i’m like I don’t want somewhere to fly by and. 34700:47:11.490 → 00:47:14.820 Kristen Mallia: So you hasn’t even started yet so i’m like I can’t. 34800:47:17.250 → 00:47:18.480 Benjamin Earl: Think about it when it comes. 34900:47:18.810 → 00:47:20.670 Kristen Mallia: seriously um. 35000:47:21.180 → 00:47:26.790 Kristen Mallia: But yeah is there is there anything else, I feel like we dove right into we don’t know each other is there anything else, like. 35100:47:26.820 → 00:47:28.830 Kristen Mallia: You want to share or any. 35200:47:28.920 → 00:47:32.370 Kristen Mallia: Anything anything you want to know. 35300:47:32.790 → 00:47:41.880 Benjamin Earl: yeah I mean there’s less I want to know by that I don’t know because I mean I don’t know i’ve i’ve again i’ve looked at your website, but I can don’t know much about your practice like and. 35400:47:42.540 → 00:47:51.030 Benjamin Earl: i’d be i’d be nice to also have the same interview and the reciprocated way like we do actually free interviews or something where we get back to the other people too. 35500:47:53.400 → 00:47:56.940 Benjamin Earl: But yeah I mean i’m curious about what you like it, and if, if you have time. 35600:47:58.020 → 00:48:02.520 Kristen Mallia: You minutes before I have to, I have to head home for a student meeting. 35700:48:02.820 → 00:48:06.480 Kristen Mallia: yeah my yeah what, what do you want to know. 35800:48:06.840 → 00:48:22.410 Benjamin Earl: Well, I mean I remember, I think I remember this right, but in the when we had that first call there will you were showing us some I don’t know there are paintings, or if they were like large scale drawings, or I like those I remember rocks. 35900:48:22.500 → 00:48:30.810 Kristen Mallia: I think yeah i’m mom i’m pretty obsessed with rocks right now in in the spring. 36000:48:31.950 → 00:48:51.420 Kristen Mallia: Oh, my God it was already it’s been over a year which blows my mind when coven was just his thing and spring 2020 I was on relevancy and island um and I was there I was supposed to be there for two months they asked me to stay a third month and I was like yes. 36100:48:52.860 → 00:48:55.530 Kristen Mallia: And so yeah so we spent three months during the. 36200:48:55.530 → 00:48:56.850 Kristen Mallia: pandemic just sort of. 36300:48:57.210 → 00:49:10.920 Kristen Mallia: hunkered in this small fjord village very, very small population seeds, Iceland and i’m and I went there, like my works very ritual based so. 36400:49:11.220 → 00:49:17.850 Kristen Mallia: I basically I was so pumped to have a semester off from teaching and to just like be able to focus on my work so. 36500:49:18.150 → 00:49:34.230 Kristen Mallia: I brought like okay i’m going to bring all these little daily rituals I have are like small creative like habits that I have over there and just see how they evolve being there and then, once I got there I did that, but I became really obsessed with like. 36600:49:35.460 → 00:49:39.090 Kristen Mallia: I mean, every day, I went for like 510 mile hikes and. 36700:49:39.090 → 00:49:39.810 Benjamin Earl: So I was. 36800:49:40.080 → 00:49:51.060 Kristen Mallia: surrounded by all of this beautiful be all of these beautiful rocks but the secular basalt was like what I would start picking it up like. 36900:49:51.630 → 00:50:05.040 Kristen Mallia: All of all of this lava rock that essentially I had never seen before, and was like this is amazing, so of course when you’re in an island country and you’re far from home, of course, you decide to start sculpting and clay. 37000:50:05.610 → 00:50:08.340 Kristen Mallia: And I like I felt like. 37100:50:08.760 → 00:50:13.500 Kristen Mallia: Like over 600 like small clay rocks um. 37200:50:13.830 → 00:50:15.060 Kristen Mallia: And then, when I. 37300:50:15.360 → 00:50:28.140 Kristen Mallia: When I came back here I flew back with them all and then, when I came back I i’ve continued to build the clay rocks but I started like feeling an interest in painting. 37400:50:29.100 → 00:50:41.640 Kristen Mallia: and interpreting them with indiana on tracing paper, so I just kind of was working with what I had but it’s also interesting to me like light is light and water basically. 37500:50:41.640 → 00:50:42.540 Everything. 37600:50:44.580 → 00:50:49.650 Kristen Mallia: um so being like really loose and going from like the sculptural. 37700:50:50.040 → 00:51:02.910 Kristen Mallia: The sculptural objects to that are so like strong and just they’re structured to go into like tracing paper where you’re just like messy with water and everything just becomes really. 37800:51:03.270 → 00:51:14.100 Kristen Mallia: flashy and can tear easily just kind of became really interesting to me so i’ve made like I mean I maybe have about like 25 of them, and my. 37900:51:14.100 → 00:51:25.170 Kristen Mallia: largest one is like it’s like pretty substantial I just moved into a new studio in December we’re like I can finally like really spread out. 38000:51:26.370 → 00:51:30.240 Kristen Mallia: Like roles of them on the floor, and I can work really big. 38100:51:31.410 → 00:51:43.110 Kristen Mallia: Which is like so exciting, so I mean I don’t know right now, where i’m sort of going with them the work was doing like the rocks were one thing when I was there and then. 38200:51:44.550 → 00:51:59.250 Kristen Mallia: In coming back like they were a way to like keep track like time traveling back to Iceland in a way, but then even more recently, a couple months ago they had these like really catastrophic mudslides in in the area where I was. 38300:51:59.640 → 00:52:04.200 Kristen Mallia: And so, these rocks suddenly became this like different. 38400:52:04.290 → 00:52:08.130 Kristen Mallia: thing and it almost felt um. 38500:52:09.540 → 00:52:24.720 Kristen Mallia: It almost felt like somehow like I was taking advantage or doing something wrong like that was exploiting it somehow so I sort of just had this weird period of reflection on the work where i’m like well where, am I going with these. 38600:52:25.110 → 00:52:30.270 Kristen Mallia: And now, like before it was about making them and displaying them and containing them. 38700:52:30.570 → 00:52:40.680 Kristen Mallia: And now it’s kind of like well what’s the next like iteration of that and, for me, I think it might be suspending them so like i’ve suspended the the tracing paper things. 38800:52:41.010 → 00:52:57.840 Kristen Mallia: Where you know there’s movement but it’s also like well how do I maintain the transparency in this play with light I not go in a direction where i’m necessarily mapping them to something super artificial and Is there something interesting there um. 38900:52:59.100 → 00:53:10.110 Kristen Mallia: I don’t know i’m also starting to build some clay rocks where i’m piercing them when they’re still like before they pardon so maybe there’s with like suspending the rocks in a space. 39000:53:11.190 → 00:53:16.710 Kristen Mallia: Something i’ve been like a big kind of stressing lately, and I just keep like writing about and sitting there being like okay. 39100:53:16.950 → 00:53:19.890 Kristen Mallia: i’m surrounded literally surrounded by rocks. 39200:53:21.180 → 00:53:27.840 Kristen Mallia: What is it that i’m doing with them again like my works ritual based so just accumulating them over time. 39300:53:27.840 → 00:53:28.380 Kristen Mallia: And going. 39400:53:28.620 → 00:53:34.950 Kristen Mallia: Action is interesting to me, but how what I want to do i’m not quite there yet. 39500:53:35.430 → 00:53:39.750 Benjamin Earl: I mean it sounds like you work for it and very intuitive fashion so whatever comes will be. 39600:53:40.140 → 00:53:40.920 Kristen Mallia: Like unnatural. 39700:53:41.400 → 00:53:42.330 unnatural. 39800:53:45.600 → 00:53:47.490 Benjamin Earl: Like progression of whatever you’ve done.3 9900:53:49.290 → 00:53:57.810 Benjamin Earl: And I think it’s interesting as well, that what you say about the mud slide changing the meaning of them because. 40000:53:59.250 → 00:54:14.130 Benjamin Earl: yeah I mean rock said, like this inanimate object, essentially, and they can they can be these beautiful things that you find, like so many like

details about i’ve got an Icelandic friend, whose father is a geologist. 40100:54:14.550 → 00:54:17.520 Benjamin Earl: And she’s super into rocks as well. 40200:54:19.380 → 00:54:23.490 Benjamin Earl: And she makes all these projects about these different elements and stuff like that it’s really nice stuff. 40300:54:25.410 → 00:54:34.230 Benjamin Earl: And it sounds incredible and I could I can so easily see how you can become like obsessed with them, it sounds like something I could definitely fall into but. 40400:54:35.730 → 00:54:44.400 Benjamin Earl: yeah it’s nice to it’s also really nice to hear that it’s like a it comes from personal places where I become comes from this like spark of fascination. 40500:54:46.230 → 00:54:54.210 Benjamin Earl: And because I think that’s also something that I give if I go back to you teaching graphic design and also like how I was taught graphic design. 40600:54:54.630 → 00:55:03.120 Benjamin Earl: it’s often taught in a way that you don’t really start with the personal but you start with like the I don’t know that the people you’re talking to all the messages saying, but actually. 40700:55:03.870 → 00:55:04.170 Benjamin Earl: I mean. 40800:55:04.980 → 00:55:06.030 Benjamin Earl: I have you. 40900:55:07.380 → 00:55:08.970 Benjamin Earl: Okay interesting a coup. 41000:55:09.630 → 00:55:11.010 Kristen Mallia: me I feel like. 41100:55:12.870 → 00:55:16.320 Kristen Mallia: I feel like the best way to learn is is when it’s personal. 41200:55:16.320 → 00:55:18.450 Kristen Mallia: Like me, as a student. 41300:55:19.560 → 00:55:24.36 0Kristen Mallia: When I was, I was fine art first and then I went back to school for. 41400:55:24.360 → 00:55:25.590 Benjamin Earl: Design interesting. 41500:55:25.770 → 00:55:37.020 Kristen Mallia: For me, I found that this the this struggle to satisfy briefs and projects, where I was given all the all the constraints and I was told when I had to say. 41600:55:37.350 → 00:55:41.220 Kristen Mallia: It was so much harder to connect with are so much harder to just like. 41700:55:41.490 → 00:55:53.610 Kristen Mallia: You know if you’re working on a personal project and you want to achieve an effect or do a thing you figure out how to do it because you’re pumped to do it because it’s your like it’s what you’re fired up about so to me. 41800:55:54.120 → 00:56:02.850 Kristen Mallia: In the beginning, especially for students, like the GD elective I enjoyed this class so much because it’s like bring your voice into it make like. 41900:56:03.240 → 00:56:20.250 Kristen Mallia: As much as you can that’s you if you want to write your own copy do it like to me that’s the best way to get them excited about it, you know and they’re like because if you’re doing what you want to do, then you’re excited about it right. 42000:56:20.250 → 00:56:32.670 Benjamin Earl: yeah exactly yeah fantastic it sounds really nice it sounds also like it get a nice like a refreshing refreshing take on it as well it’s Nice that it’s also being taught in that fashion. 42100:56:33.030 → 00:56:45.720 Kristen Mallia: yeah well I yeah I it’s I feel like I mean I guess that’s why i’m i’m excited for the fall because I feel like my. 42200:56:46.410 → 00:56:56.280 Kristen Mallia: Like i’ve been teaching for a couple years now and out a bunch of different institutions and i’m going to a place where they know like they know that i’m obsessed with rocks and. 42300:56:57.660 → 00:56:58.170 Kristen Mallia: lenses.42400:56:58.950 → 00:56:59.790Kristen Mallia: Bring that here. 42500:57:02.580 → 00:57:12.510 Kristen Mallia: Oh that’s you know that’s always nice obviously you understand your it sounds like you’re you’re bringing what we’re excited about into the classroom and that. 42600:57:12.540 → 00:57:13.440 Benjamin Earl: yeah and those true. 42700:57:13.710 → 00:57:16.560 Kristen Mallia: makes for more interesting classes too right. 42800:57:16.800 → 00:57:17.520 Benjamin Earl: yeah exactly.42900:57:18.000 → 00:57:25.830 Benjamin Earl: yeah I wouldn’t want to be teaching the history of graphic design or like a street that was like that’s right written about graphic design, although I think it could be really interesting and i’m sure. 43000:57:26.190 → 00:57:31.080 Benjamin Earl: You know, be a way to make it your own, which also could be really exciting to try, but. 43100:57:31.890 → 00:57:36.510 Benjamin Earl: When I think of the way I was taught graphic design history it’s like you read the book and that’s it. 43200:57:36.960 → 00:57:48.690 Benjamin Earl: But of course that’s not like the some of the other histories of graphic design and also like anything that can be considered it and so yeah I agree with that, I think it’s we’re on we’re on the same page in that sense. 43300:57:48.720 → 00:57:52.170 Kristen Mallia: yeah absolutely it’s nice um. 43400:57:53.580 → 00:57:55.980 Kristen Mallia: I like it was so fun to connect with you. 43500:57:56.670 → 00:58:06.360 Kristen Mallia: Nice I 30 minutes went fast and our went fast hi i’m looking forward to seeing where like this project goes for everyone i’m actually. 43600:58:06.360 → 00:58:06.900 Benjamin Earl: happy to. 43700:58:07.380 → 00:58:14.760 Kristen Mallia: dig into it like I said so much of what you said, like was creating a visual landscape in my mind. 43800:58:14.760 → 00:58:24.240 Kristen Mallia: Actually i’m really excited to revisit the recording and and get into it, but let’s totally do this again sometime i’m looking forward to the. 43900:58:24.420 → 00:58:27.540 Kristen Mallia: Definitely anytime you want to connect like please reach out. 44000:58:27.690 → 00:58:34.080 Benjamin Earl: yeah great sounds really nice i’d like to see that, like see how your how your full time teaching job is going as well. 44100:58:35.640 → 00:58:37.800 Kristen Mallia: And you know by banner Benjamin. 44200:58:38.400 → 00:58:39.120 Benjamin Earl: Ben is good. 44300:58:39.660 → 00:58:39.960 Benjamin Earl: Okay. 44400:58:40.860 → 00:58:41.760 Kristen Mallia: And how was camping. 44500:58:43.200 → 00:58:43.500 Benjamin Earl: Sorry. 44600:58:43.590 → 00:58:45.360 Benjamin Earl: i’ll have a company yeah oh counting was great. 44700:58:47.370 → 00:58:47.610 Benjamin Earl: So. 44800:58:49.590 → 00:58:50.610 Kristen Mallia: good for you. 44900:58:50.970 → 00:58:53.610 Kristen Mallia: yeah alright dude we’ll take care of. 45000:58:54.870 → 00:58:56.220 Kristen Mallia: Time today i’ll see you soon. 45100:58:56.310 → 00:58:57.180 Benjamin Earl: Yes, he said. 45200:58:57.420 → 00:58:58.620 Benjamin Earl: All right, right.

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